Beauty

"When Men are From Earth and Women are From Vulcan Fic Challenge"

Beauty

By Distracted

Rating: PG
Disclaimer: Not mine.
Genre: Friendship fic, a little UST
Summary: Trip and T’Pol have a philosophical discussion before a neuropressure session. Set a few weeks before Harbinger in the Expanse, and before T’Pol’s fateful encounter with Trellium-D.

A/N: For anyone who might be remotely interested, my reference sources include The New American Bible at http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm, and “Summa Theologica” at http://www.newadvent.org/summa/100203.htm . Boring? Maybe… but not when you combine it with a bit of TnT interaction, I hope.

EDITOR'S NOTE: The "When Men are From Earth and Women are From Vulcan...." Challenge is a response to our webmom, Myst's, desire to see stories dealing with the way Trip and T'Pol deal with the cultural and other differences that would naturally arise between two species.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Commander Tucker was late again… thirty-one minutes late, to be precise. It was now a predictable pattern of behavior that T’Pol found rather disconcerting. Since he had agreed to undergo neuropressure treatment of his insomnia thirteen days before, he had been late for eight of their twelve scheduled sessions, and had canceled four of them. His level of cooperation with the treatment was unacceptable. She rose from meditation to use the comm. Stepping to the console on the wall, she stretched out an elegant finger to activate the “all call” function.

“T’Pol to Commander Tucker.”

T’Pol paused, waiting for a response. None was forthcoming. She walked to the computer console on her otherwise completely unadorned desktop.

“Computer, locate Commander Charles Tucker,” she said, suppressing her annoyance quite firmly so that her request was voiced in tones of icy calmness.

A sensor schematic appeared on the screen. Commander Tucker was apparently in his quarters, and had chosen to avoid neuropressure that evening. This was also unacceptable. Regular deep REM sleep was necessary for the efficient functioning of the human brain. T’Pol had no intention of allowing Commander Tucker to function at less than top efficiency during a mission of such importance. Corrective steps were obviously necessary. She pulled a Vulcan robe from her closet to properly cover the clothing she wore… clothing which was not appropriate for the corridors of Enterprise, but which allowed the access to bare skin that was necessary for the proper application of neuropressure… and left her cabin in search of one Charles “Trip” Tucker the Third.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

“I know ya don’t wanna be reminded of all this, son, but I thought you might need some comfort out there while you’re chasin’ down the ones that did this to us.”

Trip Tucker sat at the computer console on the desk in his quarters. His face was wet with tears. He held a frame with a photograph of a vivacious young blonde in both hands, but he wasn’t looking at it. His eyes were fixed on the screen, on his mother’s face. Catherine Tucker’s recorded message continued.

“That’s why I asked Ensign Sato to save this until you were a month away from Earth. Don’t get mad at her, Trip. I could tell when I called right before you shipped out and you didn’t wanna talk to me that she was worried about ya. You’ve got friends on board ship, just like ya have friends at home. Don’t forget that, son. Your daddy and I love you. God bless you, Trip. I’ll be prayin’ for ya.”

The image on the screen abruptly reverted to text. It was a book file appended to the message. The title page read The New Universal Standard Bible. His mother had bookmarked passages for him. Trip sighed heavily and wiped his eyes with his sleeve. It was typical of his mother to attempt to comfort others at a time when she was the one that needed comfort. She’d always been a woman of strong faith. He just wished he could believe in any of it now. When he was younger, he’d gone to church with her… prayed with her. As he got older, faith in other things took precedence… faith in the power of human intelligence and ingenuity… in his own ability to get the job done. That was all gone now. There was only anger left… and grief. He stared at the photograph in his hands. Lizzie had been so beautiful. How could faith exist in a universe that would allow such beauty to be senselessly destroyed? Anger welled within him again. How could his mother still believe in a God that would allow something like this to happen?

His eyes returned to the screen. With his teeth clenched, he brought up the first bookmarked passage. It was from the Old Testament, the Book of Wisdom.

Court not death by your erring way of life, nor draw to yourselves destruction by the works of your hands, because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living. For he fashioned all things that they might have being.

“Dammit, Mama!” he exploded. Holding Lizzie’s picture securely in one hand, he slammed his opposite fist on the keyboard to close the file. Instead, his violent outburst caused the next passage to appear. The Book of Wisdom appeared to be the source of readings for the day.

But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them. They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead; and their passing away was thought an affliction, and their going forth from us, utter destruction. But they are in peace.

Tears began to flow in earnest. It’s just not fair, he thought in wry resignation. She even knows what I’m thinkin’ 200 light years from home! He took a shaky breath, and brought up the next passage. The Book of Lamentations this time. When had his mother become such a bible scholar?

My portion is the LORD, says my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Good is the LORD to one who waits for him, to the soul that seeks him; It is good to hope in silence for the saving help of the LORD.

Trip carefully placed the photo and its frame on the desk beside the computer monitor, and then dropped his head into his hands. It was all just too much to bear.

Okay, God, he thought angrily, If you’re so damned good and all… what the hell do ya plan to do next? Let the Xindi fry the rest of us?

His head came up, and he stared sightlessly at the computer screen, where the passage from the Book of Lamentations that his mother had thought would comfort him was still displayed. His angry reaction to the words before him forced him to be completely honest with himself. He still believed. He wouldn’t be nearly so pissed off now if he didn’t. He sighed.

“You win, God,” he muttered furiously. He looked up then, the way he’d done as a child whenever he prayed. It had made no sense then, and still didn’t. He just did it out of habit.

“I may believe in ya… you piss-poor excuse for a ‘merciful redeemer’… but I don’t hafta like ya!” he said to the ceiling. Then the door chime rang.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When Commander Tucker answered the door, he appeared to be angry. He also had obviously been crying. The combination did not bode well for his receptiveness to any suggestions which might improve his efficiency. T’Pol paused before speaking, uncertain about the most appropriate response to the situation. After two seconds spent in silence simply looking at her in puzzlement, the disheveled engineer’s eyes widened.

“Neuropressure!” he said in sudden realization. He gave her an apologetic look. His hang-dog expression, combined with the obvious fatigue on his tearstained face, sent an unfamiliar pang of concern through her. It was concern for the ship’s operational efficiency, she decided.

“When you failed to arrive within thirty minutes of our scheduled appointment, I decided to come and find you,” said T’Pol coolly.

The human smiled rather sheepishly, and then seemed to notice the way that she was dressed. Apparently realizing that she intended to offer treatment in his quarters that evening, he stepped aside to allow her entry.

“I’m real sorry, T'Pol.” The commander’s words dimly registered as she took in the room before her.

“An apology is not necessary. I would much prefer punctuality,” she replied over her shoulder as she walked to the center of the room and gazed around her in what would certainly have passed for curiosity in a non-Vulcan. T’Pol, of course, did not experience curiosity.

The bed was unmade. The room was otherwise relatively tidy. Pictures in frames decorated every level surface… photographs of sea life, and of people she didn’t recognize, mostly. There was one of Commander Tucker with Captain Archer. The two of them were much younger, and had broad grins on their faces and their arms over each other’s shoulders. There was one of the commander flanked by an older couple. T’Pol assumed that they were his parents. On the desk next to the computer console, facing a small vase containing a single silk flower which T’Pol didn’t recognize, a young woman smiled brightly from a candid portrait taken with greenery in the background. Her hair was long and blonde. T’Pol walked forward and picked up the frame. She studied the open, cheerful face in the picture. Commander Tucker had smiled like that… before. She looked up as he approached her and gently took the frame from her hand, placing it back on the table. Her eyes searched his face. He avoided her gaze.

“Is that a portrait of your sister?” asked T’Pol softly. She wasn’t sure why knowing the answer to the question was important to her, but she felt compelled to ask. He smiled briefly and nodded. T’Pol searched for something to say to draw him out.

“She resembled you quite strongly,” she said finally. He didn’t smile again, but he nodded, merely acknowledging the statement. His eyes remained fixed on the photograph. T’Pol’s eyes followed his, and then she caught sight of the scripture passage highlighted on the console screen. One brow went up as she read.

“I was not aware that you espoused faith in a deity,” she told him after completing her study of the passage. She turned to him with a questioning look.

“I have always wondered about the human tendency to put credence in things which have no basis in logic,” she said with interest. He rolled his eyes, still focused on the photo in his hand.

T’Pol eyed him consideringly. Her readings in human psychology had implied that humans who demonstrated belief in a power greater than themselves possessed greater resilience in times of stress. “Do you find the practice calming in times like these?”

Commander Tucker met her eyes finally, and chuckled dryly, shaking his head as he carefully replaced the picture frame on the desk in front of him. “I guess not, since I was in the process of cussin’ the guy out when you rang the bell,” he told her ruefully.

T’Pol eyed the human before her with a puzzled expression. He seemed entirely sincere.

“My understanding of what humans call ‘God’, although admittedly incomplete, does not appear to be the same as yours, Commander,” she told him. “Given the supposition that you believe in a superior being, perhaps you could explain to me the benefit you derive from calling into question the motives of an omniscient and all-powerful entity responsible for the entirety of creation… or is my understanding of the concept faulty?”

The commander stared at her for a moment. He appeared to be struggling with some unnamed emotion, and then, to T’Pol’s utter surprise, he began to laugh.

“Mama’s not gonna believe this,” he said, shaking his head. His smile, directed at her, caused unexpected warmth to blossom somewhere in the center of her chest. “Now I’ve got a Vulcan preachin’ at me!”

T’Pol’s brow rose to her hairline. “I was merely clarifying my understanding of the concept, Commander. Your beliefs are entirely your affair.”

Still smiling in a rather befuddled manner, the engineer walked over to his bed and sat down, indicating with a wave of one hand that his visitor should take the desk chair. T’Pol complied.

“So… you don’t believe in God, but you’re tryin’ to talk me into trustin’ in His plans?” asked the puzzled human.

T’Pol exhaled. There were times when the commander’s usually brilliant mind failed to comprehend the simplest of statements. She found her frustration at moments like these very difficult to suppress.

“Vulcans neither believe nor disbelieve in a deity, Commander, since the existence of a higher power can neither be logically proved nor disproved,” she told him with forced tolerance. “I was merely pointing out the flaws inherent in your reasoning, given the initial supposition that what you believe is, in fact, true.”

“So, you’re sayin’ that if I’m gonna believe in somethin’ as illogical as God, I oughtta do it in a logical way,” he said ironically. “Isn’t that sort of a contradiction, T’Pol?”

T’Pol’s brow went up again. Then she plunged into the debate with earnest.

“Not necessarily, Commander,” she replied. “While I was preparing for my assignment to Enterprise, I read extensively from classic human philosophical works. It was my intention to search for parallels in them to the works of Surak… in order to better understand human thought processes.” She paused. He waited with an amused expression on his face. “I was not entirely successful,” she admitted.

The commander let out a single dry laugh. “You’re tellin’ me!” he murmured.

She fixed him with a stare of Vulcan displeasure as she continued. “In the course of my investigations, I came across an interesting document written several centuries ago by a human named Thomas Aquinas. Are you familiar with it?”

Her opponent in the evening’s philosophical debate thought for a moment, and then admitted defeat. “I’ve heard the name, but I can’t say that I’m real ‘familiar’ with what the guy wrote.” He cocked his head at her with a look of forced patience and crossed his arms. “Lemme guess, though… you’re gonna tell me all about it, aren’t ya?”

“Describing a portion of Aquinas’ work will be necessary to allow me to make my point, Commander,” replied T’Pol. Her companion rolled his eyes and said nothing. She took that as an invitation to continue.

“I found Aquinas’ attempts to logically prove the existence of God quite fascinating. Although some of them were based on incompletely understood scientific concepts which can now be disproved, the one which interested me the most used the concept of beauty as the basis for the existence of a deity.”

Commander Tucker’s expression cleared. “I remember that one! Mama took this theology course at the bible college when I was a kid, and she told me about it. Isn’t that the one where God has to exist because, otherwise, how would we know somethin’ was beautiful without havin’ the most beautiful thing in the universe to compare it to, and that beautiful thing is God?” he scoffed. “I always thought that one was stupid! I know what beauty is. I don’t need anythin’ to compare it to.”

T’Pol eyed him challengingly, and then pulled the silk flower from the vase on the desk in front of her. The commander reached for it instinctively with an alarmed expression on his face.

“Be careful with that, T’Pol! Lizzie gave it to me!” He took her hand in both of his, extracted the artificial blossom reverently from her grasp, and held it gingerly between the thumb and forefinger of his right hand. Initially, his attention fixed on the silk flower, he didn’t seem to be aware of the fact that his left hand still cradled hers.

“I apologize, Commander,” said T’Pol stiffly. She looked down at the floor. In her eagerness to make a point, she had overstepped the bounds of polite behavior and touched a valued item without his permission. It was inexcusable. His calloused fingers still gripped hers. She felt them squeeze gently.

“Hey… it’s okay. No harm done,” came the commander’s soft reply. She looked up. He was gazing at her with a curious expression. Then he smiled reassuringly. The warmth in her chest returned. Her brown eyes locked with his blue ones for several seconds. Neither of them said anything. She became aware of his scent in the enclosed room. It was not at all unpleasant. Then he released her hand.

“So… what was your point?” he asked finally.

T’Pol cleared her throat. Then she gestured toward the flower in his hand. “Do you find that botanical reproduction in your hand aesthetically pleasing?”

He looked down at his hand. “You mean this silk lily?” he asked her. He lifted it up to his own eye level and studied it for a moment. “Yeah… I suppose I do,” he told her diffidently. “I keep it more for sentimental value, though, since Lizzie gave it to me… to ‘brighten up’ my cabin, she said… since I hardly ever get to see real flowers.”

“So you do agree that, for more than one reason, you find the lily beautiful,” pressed T’Pol. He shrugged, and then nodded agreeably.

“Why do you find it beautiful? To what are you comparing it to make that assessment?”

Commander Tucker tilted his head in exasperation, his tongue stuck firmly in one cheek. “Are we back to that again?” he asked. T’Pol returned his stare squarely, waiting for his response. He exhaled heavily and capitulated. “I guess I’m comparin’ it to the ‘perfect’ lily… and that’s just an idea… and the idea came from somewhere… and that somewhere isn’t me, ‘cause how would I know what perfect is?” He exhaled once again. “I get it, T’Pol,” he replied. “You win. Assuming that I believe in God, and I suppose I still do, despite everythin’, it’s possible to think about his existence logically,” he growled, “… now can we do some neuropressure so I can get some sleep?”

“Very well, Commander,” replied T’Pol in a tone just short of smugly satisfied. “Please remove your shirt.”

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Trip Tucker lay face down on his bunk, suspended in the twilight state halfway between sleep and wakefulness. Small, soothingly warm hands pressed firmly into the pressure points at the base of his spine. He felt as if he were floating… in a state of utter and complete physical relaxation. His mind, freed of care, was left unfettered to explore the events of the day.

Wonder why she seemed so eager to argue the merits of somethin’ she doesn’t even believe in? he wondered idly. His mouth turned up into blissful smile as T’Pol’s hands moved to the pressure points in his mid-back which always put him right to sleep. The image of the expression on her beautiful face when he’d held her hand that evening suddenly came to mind. Too bad she was only interested in the challenge of the argument. It occurred to him as he fell asleep that if the existence of God could really be proved by the existence of beauty in the universe, then she was living proof that God existed. He found the idea strangely comforting.

End

Back to Fan Fiction Main Menu

Have a comment to make about this story? Do so in the Trip Fan Fiction forum at the HoTBBS!

A whole mess of folks have made comments

One month after they left Earth would still leave them weeks prior to the neuropressure sessions starting. It took more than seven weeks just to reach the Expanse and Archer says they've been in the Expanse for weeks before the start of The Xindi.

I'm also disappointed to see the further perpetuation of the stereotype that, without a woman, a man in utterly incapable of keeping his quarters neat and tidy. It's especially insulting when every time we see Trip's quarters, they are neat and tidy. It's annoying to see canon ignored just to maintain a stereotype.

Simply amazing! I loved every part of it, especially the range of emotions and most definitely T'Pol, that was the perfect characterization. I especially liked your choice of philosophy and choosing the texts you did, and both TnT's treatment, Trip's confusion and T'Pol's mid-ground acceptance (since it can't be proven or disproven).

"His hang-dog expression, combined with the obvious fatigue on his tearstained face, sent an unfamiliar pang of concern through her. It was concern for the ship’s operational efficiency, she decided." She still hasn't figured it out as she eh? :D

But this is one great fic to start off the challenge, with an ending like that, o boy the things to look forward too! Thanks for this great fic, amazing as always.

Sorry, didn't like it that much, probably because I'm not religious and I think conversations about god are extremely boring.

Kevin, thanks for setting me straight with the timeline. The story itself makes no mention of it, so if you prefer, you can just ignore my summary. As far as the messy quarters go, the scene was from T'Pol's POV, and the point I was trying to make is that T'Pol's tidiness standards would probably be more stringent than average, and even at a time when Trip was emotionally distraught, the clutter in his quarters was primarily the photographs that he'd pulled out to remind him of home. You'll note that I made no mention of dirty clothes anywhere, and under the circumstances, an unmade bed would hardly be surprising. I envisioned him being so upset that he simply didn't feel like making it up. Even T'Pol called the room "relatively tidy". How is that perpetuating a male stereotype?

Thanks, Gammaent. I was worried that ya'll would find this one too cerebral and boring. I tried to portray T'Pol as being just on the verge of admitting her feelings for Trip to herself. My thought was that it was these unconscious feelings that prompted her to take the side she took in their debate. What better motivation could a Vulcan have to argue the merits of trust in a higher power than the conviction that such trust would benefit someone she'd come to care about?

I just skimmed the story and realized that I DID specify that they were only a month away from Earth in Catherine's message to Trip. Oh well. Too bad. Guess you'll just have to live with the inconsistency, Kevin. Sorry.

Very nice, Distracted. The entire scene in Trip's quarters was lovely. I like your Trip and T'Pol dialogue very much. T'Pol especially. I don't know if Trip would refer to his mom as "mama" to T'Pol; it seems a bit too intimate. Also, I do think that if T'Pol were to study human philosophies in search of parallels to her Vulcan beliefs, she would most certainly find Buddhism of interest, and worth mentioning.

Oh, and I thought this was an extremely interesting concept to write for a T\T fic, Distracted. I'm not at all religious, but find religion and philosophies interesting topics. And I believe Trip and T'Pol, explorers, would too find these topics facsinating, especially in exploring each other. After all, I would imagine that T'Pol would be very interested and curious about Trip's beliefs. It's very important in a relationship, that if you are religous, then your mate should probably share those beliefs with you. Not saying a relationship where your beliefs systems aren't the same isn't possible; but, it's important. T'Pol seems to be "feeling him out" as much as she's trying to "make a point" in this scene. Very nice.

I compmletely agree with Y2Kelly's comment. Not being religious myself, I found the discussion in the story refreshing and quite appropriate for the setting. Very well thought out and handled.

A very interesting fic, I’m not particularly religious myself, but I find the subject quite intriguing. I liked how T’Pol didn’t try to disprove religion; instead having Vulcan’s being agnostics, using logic to show the existence in a deity can’t be proved. I would never have though of using this subject, but in my opinion it worked really well. I also liked Trip questioning his belief in a higher power, something many people do in times of tragedy, and having T’pol there for him, despite the cultural differences was a nice TnT moment. Another great fic!

y2kelly said, "Also, I do think that if T'Pol were to study human philosophies in search of parallels to her Vulcan beliefs, she would most certainly find Buddhism of interest, and worth mentioning. "

Actually, it wasn't my intent to imply that T'Pol failed to find parallels to Vulcan beliefs within the innumerable religious philosophies of Earth. I was trying to be humorous. She obviously still has a lot to learn about human thought processes, so her studies didn't yield the benefits she hoped they would.

What little I know of Buddism didn't really seem to me to pertain to their discussion, as I have always had the impression that Buddism is less a belief in a higher power than it is a belief that the human soul is capable of attaining a god-like state... free of all earthly wants and needs. This is, in fact, very similar to the concept of Kolinahr as I understand it, but not pertinent to their discussion about trust in God... a God whom I am assuming would more closely resemble the Judeo-Christian version in Trip's mind, given his upbringing.

Wow! Very deep! I think Trip would definitely question his faith after the death of his sister. He's still angry and nothing about the attack makes sense to him.

T'Pol knows that he has an analytical mind. She also knows that humans often draw comfort from the belief in a supreme being. She's not going to tell Trip what he should or shouldn't believe. She's just going to offer food for thought and allow him to begin to sort things out for himself. That's very nice. He helped her with a personal problem several years before and now she's trying to help him. Friends building a foundation to become so much more. Great job!

Yeah, Dee (You don't mind if I call you Dee?), that makes sense; keeping on topic with their discussion about God, I guess Buddism would have been off-topic. I just always think Vulcans are so Buddist-like in their ways that I wonder what T'Pol would think of the Buddist religion and culture. I wonder if T'Pol would think any less of Trip had he been a devout Christian?

Distracted does need a nickname, doesn't she?

I read this over yesterday and I thought it was very intelligent. A discussion about faith and logic. It's perfect for Trip and T'Pol. It says a lot that T'Pol won't outright dismiss a belief that humans and Trip, in particular, might have. They work things out by respecting one another. Here T'Pol seems to shine the light on Trip's own path because she knows it's best for him. I thought it was very well done.

Not only that, but it's nice to hear Trip and T'Pol talking again. : )

Y2Kelly, ("Dee"'s fine with me, BTW... but most readers just use "D") I agree with you about the Vulcan view being almost Buddist. IDIC is very similar to the all-encompassing view of the Godhead in Buddism... and much of Buddism seems to be devoted to the elimination of material desires... an analogue of Kolinahr that I find intriguing. As far as "religious right" Christianity goes, if Trip espoused that system of belief... and being from the southern U.S. it's possible that he might have been raised Southern Baptist or something of that nature, I prefer to think that T'Pol would be intrigued by the apparent contradiction, and want to learn more. An analytically scientific mind and devout Christianity aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, you know. Have you ever read any C.S. Lewis?

Very nice, Distracted. I very much liked the discussion on religion ... although I'd personally consider MOST Vulcans as sort of religious with Logic as the foundation of their "religion."

I didn't see the reference made as perpetuating the slovenly male stereotype (as I look around this mess of a room) and thought that the comment "The room was otherwise relatively tidy." indicated exactly the opposite. Coming from a Vulcan, that probably means that you could eat off the floor without much problem...

Rigil, Messiness certainly isn't the sole province of the male of the species (I bet the room I'm in would give yours a run for its money), but thank you for seeing my point. T'Pol's idea of tidy and any human's idea of the same condition would very likely differ considerably. ; )

I don't consider it the perpetuation of a male stereotype, rather the perpetuation of a particular facet of Trip himself, which I think is reasonable. The man's busier'n a hornet most days and he's also a bit of the brilliant sort that might not care about things being too tidy.

D ;)

I read the Chronicles of Narnia series when I was a child (long, long, time ago). But nothing else. Any recommendations?

But John, as Kevin correctly pointed out, every time we saw Trip's quarters in the show, they were spotless. I think that there was just a minor misunderstanding here on Kevin's part ...

Y2kelly, try the Perelandra series, or the Screwtape Letters. Terrific stuff. The Perelandra stories are SF, sort of H.G. Wells-ish. The Screwtape Letters are a religious allegory, written from the viewpoint of a demon. Both of them are classics of SF/Fantasy literature written by a man who was a confessed devout Christian.

Cool stuff. Out of curiosity, where were the passages from? I've never heard of the Book of Wisdom. Lamentations sounds familiar though... :)

Oh wait. Just looked it up. The Book of Wisdom is in the Catholic bible. Whoops. I'm Mennonite, ergo, not something I'd seen before. Lamentations, however, I have. Isn't Wikipedia great? :)

I just read it again Distracted and here's my "honest-writer" comment ;). I felt T'Pol was "defending" religion a little too much. I can see the reason in having a Vulcan sort of take the agnostic position and say that the existence of God is not something you can prove or disprove and therefore feel indifferent, but Vulcans of this era have a tendency to objectify less-advanced races and judge aspects of their culture in a somewhat critical light. I just think that Vulcans of this era, T'Pol included, would see religion as a construct that lesser societies rely upon to explain phenomena they don't understand. And I don't think T'Pol at this point in the series has "existentially evolved" enough, if she ever did, to see past this part of her cultural bias and comment that religion seems to give people strength in times of stress. I'm all for giving her credit for evolving past her vulcan preconceptions, but that's a pretty big one, and a bit too early (IMHO of course :) I still think she'd see it as an archaic construct of unenlightened species who can't justify a moral code without divine mandate.

I understand your POV, John, but I disagree with you in this particular instance. T'Pol has already ignored Vulcan tradition in a pretty big way when she agreed to treat Trip's insomnia with such an "intimate" technique as neuropressure. She's assigned herself a project here... to keep the ship's engineer functional and stable. Now that she is aware of his belief in God, she will use that belief, IMO, as an additional means of keeping him psychologically together. Her opinion of organized religion and/or belief in God is irrelevant. She's not arguing from personal conviction. Her beliefs have not changed... she believes only in what can be logically proved or disproved. She's trying to use what she knows about human psychology to accomplish the task at hand... and if her motivation for accomplishing that task is no longer completely unemotional... well... she hasn't quite admitted that part to herself yet.

Really, really like this. I have to agree with John that its a slight stretch that T'Pol would actually defend the existence of God, rather than the agnostic position, but on the other hand, her main goal is probably to engage Trip in conversation (to draw him get closer)without admitting anything other than intellectual curiosity--so taking that position may be only strategic. I think this scenario does respect the fact that these are two very smart, intellectual people.

I am a former Christian, now an agnostic. For a thought-provoking (and dramatic) C.S. Lewis book, try "Suprised by Joy," which is autobiographical. After writing many theological essays on the topic, "Why would a good God let bad things happend," Lewis's own faith is shaken by the death of his wife, whose name was Joy. He married Joy only so she could get her green card. He fell in love with her AFTER she became ill and was blown away by the experience (Thus the title "Surprised by Joy") then she immediately died and he was devestated. Now he had to have a taste of his own medicine and found he wasn't easily comforted by it.

A movie based on the book is Shadowlands. Don't watch it, unless you can stand to watch Anthony Hopkins cry. Very heartbreaking.

Back to Distracted's story. T'Pol in DEEP denial. You did her perfectly! Trip is smart even if he is emotional. I APPROVE!

A more general question. Does Christianity still exist in the Enterprise time period? I think it dies out by the Next Generation period, based on total lack of references to it, even in a context where it might come naturally come up. But in the Enterprise period Trip's swears (hell and damn) lend credibiilty to the theory that Christianity still means something to some people--otherwise the swears would not be offensive, which apparently they are [Dawn}. I also distinctly remember an Enteprise reference to that sacred Christian symbol the Easter Bunny.

justTrip'n, In my view of the Trekkiverse circa Enterprise, Christianity is still alive and well. If you've read my Virtual Season Five, you'll recall that my OC Janie Rafter and her employer are both Christian, and in this story, I've implied that Catherine Tucker is one as well. I don't think that Christianity would go down without a fight, and I fully expect, as seen on Babylon Five, for example, that there will still be versions of Christianity (as well as Buddism, Judaism, Buddism, Islam, and a host of others) out there when we reach the stars.

Well, I'm not going to go into my diatribe about the TNG-era Federation looking like a communist state (which actively try to stamp out religion) and will instead point to Generations wherein Picard's little fantasy thingy included a very traditional-looking Christmas celebration. Yeah, it doesn't really PROVE anything but it is something to chew on.

The Christmas tree. I forgot. Good point. Yeah, TNG-era communist state bugs me too.

Well Distracted, this one really gripped me as you know I have a soft spot for Lizzy. I don’t mind the religious philosophy at all, it is not boring to me. In fact, it is quite comforting to see it applied to such a heartbreaking situation. Was the use of the lily a conscious connection to the Easter lily? And I have not explored Buddhism much, but I do see a possible connection to Vulcan spirituality.

I think this is a nice back story to T’Pol naming her and Trip’s child Elizabeth.

Also, your phrase “He held a frame with a photograph of a vivacious you blonde in both hands” sent a shiver down my spine as I am in the middle of a story where Trip holds Lizzy’s photo IN BOTH HANDS. Did you send me that telepathically? You must have! Even though I have not finished this story for the new challenge, could I run it past you? I think we are doing similar spiritual things on parallel paths from our differing religious disciplines, and I don’t want to be too repetitious. But it has a theme of working with the longevity differences between Vulcans and humans which I see as one big problem for mixed couples to have to work around. I hope someone else will tackle this subject too, in this challenge.

Oh, I do see Trip as being from an Irish Catholic background, which I think has been implied in canon, right? Your Christian perspective and T’Pol trying to work with that in her relationship with Trip is quite appropriate from my point of view.

And about the messy quarters – you didn’t really have them messy at all in my view. I didn’t see anything stereotyping males in this story at all. Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and also, I think, messy quarters are in the eye of the beholder, LOL.

Rigil and justTrip'n, this communist thing in TNG went right over my head. Guess I will have to review my TNG DVDs and look for it. Any suggestions as to specific episodes? I did get a feeling from DS9 that something was rotten in the Federation though. Like the origin of that plague that Odo caught and secret independent nasty KGB style sub groups.

Sound like you did catch it. (Yes, all the activities by the unelected and unaccoutable Section 31.) Also in the movie First Contact Lilly asks Picard about how much a new ship costs and he says something like "The economics of this century are quite different what your used to." Also the way the profit-seeking Ferengi as dismissed as ridiculous, like humans have everything under control somehow without resorting to business transactions.

Thanks for your comments, Linda. An Irish Catholic, huh? What episode implied that? I was thinking Protestant Christian, but Catholic works too... especially since I had Catherine quoting from the Catholic bible. (It's the one I use. I didn't know there was a difference.)

I don't remember what episode it was, but Trip referred to relatives in Ireland and to a great-grandmoterh who came over form Ireland. But then, I could be confusing canon with a fan fic. It all runs together in my mind after awhile. Oh, maybe it was in 'Breaking the Ice' where an Irish elementary school class was asking questions of the Enterprise crew? I thought that was a connection to Trip. You remember that Trip got to answer 'the poop question'? And there were some cute drawings of Vulcans by little human kids - green faces and huge ears? Now I will have to go check that out, to see how faulty my memory is. And perhaps it is also a perception of mine just from hanging out in the Celtic community in Milwaukee which is mostly Irish and most of the Irish here are Catholic. When I was in a Scottish Highland dance group, and some of the dancers went to Scotland, the Irish community gave the biggest donation to help the group make the trip. My granddaughter wanted ot do highland dancing and step dancing but we concentrated on pow wow dancing as practicing all those dances would leave her no time for school, LOL. Anyway, that is my concept of Trip's background. And I am overtyping my self here so I can get off to run on a treadmill like a pet mouse to trim down my middle age spread!

BTW, Linda, I just noticed that you asked me to look at your story (comes from rushing to read comments at work and missing whole sentences). If you still want me to, I'd be happy to do so. I'm looking forward to reading your offering.

I thought this was a very brave and interesting fic. I have observed that in times of grief people tend to question what they believe, to try to make sense of what has happened, to reframe their world view in relation to the tragic circumstances. Whatever your belief system, the death of a loved one often leads to you pondering life and what happens afterwards. So I was really excited to read these ideas about how Trip would deal with his beliefs in relation to his sister's death and the whole death of millions incident. I thought it was handled in a clever and delicate way. As an added treat this fic has incited a robust debate which is in itself a wonderful thing. Well done Distracted, keep being brave!!

Thanks, Tracy. I freely admit that I chose this topic for my fic deliberately, in the attempt to elicit meaningful discussion... the type you just can't have with the average Joe on the street. I'm thrilled with the result. You guys are just so SMART! This is so much FUN! : )

Very nice piece. I liked the discussion of religion. I believe that T'Pol intentionally defended the existence of God because, as she directly acknowledged, those with faith in God function better during stressful times, and even then T'Pol wanted to take care of her Engineer. Also, that observation is a common one, and it would not be hard for a Vulcan to come across it.

Much as I enjoyed the story, I do believe that the side of T'Pol shown was slightly too far past where the character was at the beginning of Season 3. I perceived a certain softness and compassion that shouldn't have appeared quite as early.

However, I enjoyed the Bible quotes and appreciated the time and thought put into this story. Sensitive topic, and I'm proud to see someone tackle it. Once again, nice job.

"Much as I enjoyed the story, I do believe that the side of T'Pol shown was slightly too far past where the character was at the beginning of Season 3. I perceived a certain softness and compassion that shouldn't have appeared quite as early."

Ah... I see your point. Well, I guess I read more into her silences and imperious stares than others do. I've found that it's possible to be cold and clinical on the outside, but still be caring on the inside. That's why I did most of this story from T'Pol's POV. You'll notice that at the end, Trip STILL thinks all she cares about is having a challenging debate. Just 'cause she's starting to feel certain... emotions... doesn't mean anyone else can TELL. Hell... SHE can't even tell. I was trying to explore her feelings a bit pre-trellium. Guess I wasn't quite subtle enough. ; )

Ahhh, Rasputin loves to see belief in God maintained amid the saintliness and sinfulness of life lived even in faraway times and places.

Amen, Raz! "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations"... and planets... and star systems... and galaxies. It's a big job, but somebody's gotta do it. We might as well start here. ; )

For Y2Kelly, and anyone else who is interested, an excellent book to read would be "A Severe Mercy," by Sheldon Van Auken. It is an autobiographical love story of Van and his wife Davy, who go to England and are influenced by C.S. Lewis. Davy takes a "leap of faith" and believes in Christ, while Van has a terrific struggle. How he reconciles Davy's death soon after and deals with his own faith issues is a fascinating story. And by the way, referring to the questioning of your faith, and even questioning God, you will find a lot of that in the Book of Psalms, especially those written by King David, who openly questioned God without cursing Him or renouncing his faith.

Thanks for the recommendation, Holly. I've never read that one, but it sounds very touching. I tend to want to stay away from fiction where the protagonists die... not very uplifting. Non-fiction is a different matter, though. People die. That's reality. Sometimes it's enlightening to read about how the ones that are left behind deal with it. Eventually, we'll all have to deal with it, as unhappy as the prospect may be. I'll have to wait for a dreary, rainy day to read it, though, so I'm already depressed, LOL!

Another outstanding fic. I particularly liked her 'concern for the ship', these Vulcans really know how to delude themselves.

This is also T'Pol touched by two years of human contact, her open mindedness with something that couldn't be proven or disproven, could be true. I would suspect, at this time, your average Vulcan would assume it was more likely to be nonsense.

AND he was still cradling her hand after he took the flower, so sweet!!!

Loved it. Loved it very much.