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Coffee Break!

Coffee Break is now closed. We have opened a bulletin board, House of Tucker Bulletin Board, with a Trip/T'Polers forum:

House of Tucker Bulletin Board

We will leave the comments already posted here, but we hope you will revive these very interesting discussions at the new BB - we hope you will join us there to discuss all things Trip and T'Pol.

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Why do you think Trip and T'Pol would make an interesting couple? Do you think they can last long term or not?



Return to Miscellany

A whole mess of folks have made comments

Okay, I'll start.

It's pretty obvious that the sexual attraction was there from the start. I won't pretend that I'm not influenced by that sizzle, but that's not all there is.

I don't think of Trip and T'Pol as opposites but as two sides of the same thing. To some extent I think they fear or reject some part of themselves: the very part each sees manifested in the other--hence they're tendancy to set each other off. It will be interesting watch them trying to keep each other at arm's length, but always being drawn back.

Do they have a long term future? I doubt it. Actually, I doubt T'Pol could have a long term future with any human. But if tptb allow the spark between them to ignite, then we'll be treated to a passionate, but bittersweet love story. I think circumstances would force them to separate: both humans and Vulcans hold prejudices about the other species that that will not be overcome in Trip's lifetime. We know that even in the original series that some humans continued to hold overt prejudice against Vulcans. How then could they be together? How could she be with any human? Marriages do not exist in a vacuum, but in the context of a society. Outside of the crew of Enterprise there would be no community to sustain them.

*Romance* can exist outside of society because it feeds on the passion of two individuals, but marriage (or a long term commitment) is part of something besides the couple.
Bucky

I disagree. While I'm the last guy to defend romance ('Love' is a largely fictional concept) I do believe that in this case marrige might actually work out. Hard, hell yes! Impossible, nope.

These charecters show a definite ability to stick together.

My turn!

I think Trip and T'Pol are two of the most fascinating characters on television. Period. They've got all kinds of chemistry, but especially that sexual spark. Adding some fuel to that would be their personalities and the push and shove they (used to) do. But there's also their loyalty to Archer which will bind them together. The more they hang out together, professionally or personally, the more they find out they have stuff in common.

Jazz, for instance. Though neither knows the other likes it, the audience does. It's a good start.

I don't see it lasting in the conventional sense, nor do I think they'd ever get married. Their relationship goes unrequited for a few years, then it explodes...aw hell...I wrote a story about how I see it going. I won't reiterate it here, but suffice it to say, I think it's plausible that Trip and Polly could make *something* work. It would just be different.

a i conqour with the the last statment either that or the eriters will throw them together in some sort of au and when they get back they lose there memory but the fans will be satisfied

The sexual attraction is there no doubt, though for all we know it might be Trineer/Blalock we're getting those sparks from and not Trip/T'Pol. Everything is still up in the air at this point and it's too soon to make conjectures. I'll reserve my opinion for a later date.

I don't drink coffee but I'll sip happily on my cup of Vanilla Chai.

If you take the first letter of each characters name what do you get? TnT which in a word is explosive. That's not dumb luck, that's sweet forbidden DESTINY!

T'Pol and Trip are such opposites yet at their core the same person. T'Pol meditates, remains calm, calculating, logical and cool. Trip is loud, abrasive, outspoken and goes with his instincts and heart. Yet, because of being an engineer Trip is logical & calculating while T'Pol as we seen carries a smoldering passion & wicked sense of humor. Its the surface differences that cause T'Pol & Trip to banter, bicker and disagree yet its their underneath qualities loyalty, honestly, passion for adventure, respect for Archer and the need to be constantly challenge that seems to naturally draw them together.

Could T'Pol & Trip work long term? Why not, it did for Sarek & Amanda Spock's parents. Amanda was a very passionate, emotional outspoken woman who seemed to THRIEVE in her marriage to the very logical, very cool Sarek. Amanda obviously had a great appreciation for Vulcan ideals (she tells Kirk that its a better way of life) yet she never seemed to give up her zest for life and Sarek seemed perfectly content NOT to change Amanda (ie make her more Vulcan). Sarek even points out that Amanda has always been emotional in regards to Spock's observation.

Spock: "Then why did you marry her?"
Sarek: "It seemed like the logical thing to do."
(bwa ahaha Vulcan humor, you gotta love it)

Tuvok, Spock and Sarek all Vulcans yet their close friends/mates were all emotional & human counterparts. I almost wonder if Vulcans need that extention to keep 'balance' in their own logical minds. Perhaps these three are the exception but T'Pol seems different from the others Vulcans who are supposedly prejudice against the humans.

Getting back on topic yes I DEFINANTLY think T'Pol & Trip given their personalities, differences and similar likes would make an interesting couple. As I mentioned, Tucker & T'Pol are characters at their best when their challenged. Either by others or by their own ideas. We watch as Trip truly struggles and sometimes fails at understanding Vulcans so he can accept T'Pol while T'Pol may hold back because she's so overwhelmed by her passion for Trip. It'll definantly be a complicated relationship that will either rewards us (love conquers all) or breaks our hearts (one dies tragically before or shortly after love is offical declared).

as a child growing up in the south during the 50's and 60's i saw some inter racial couples.
no the path wasnt easy and at least through the early sixties they were condemened by large portions of society but many of them made it work.

the ones that did make it work had several things in common including a small circle of friends and some of their families that accepted their decision.

out side of that circle of people they really didnt give a damn what society as a whole thought.
they had each other and the people they really cared about (with the exception of some family members ) were happy for them.

and consider this.. someone had to be first.'
while there may still have been prejuice at the time of tos (though you wonder how much it really was... most of it came from bones who seemed to use it more as way to get under spock's skin then something he really believed) but it didnt prevent a vulcan with a human wife from becoming an ambassador.

and trip and t'pol have starfleet and soon the federation.

i beleive t'pol already feels estranged from vulcan and has for some time.

so i can see them making a life within starfleet first on the enterprise or some other starship and later as instructors ect at the academey itself. that starfleet will be the cocoon from which the relationship can thrive.

i see one reason they are taking this so slow is a way to sort out their feelings for each .
that they whole thing is to risky ect for some short term relationship.

they already seem to be going through some sotrt of bonding process.. how was t'pol described it.
building affection toward one another.

and no i dont see totally smooth sailing through every year of the relationship.

i see many obstacles, eddies and currents that will at times even pull them apart for awhile.
but i also see two people with the intelligence and concern for each other to try and work things out in the long run.

So many interesting thoughts. I don't know if Trip and T'Pol will make it. THE CURSOR wrote a poignant fan fiction about T'Pol left alone for decades as a result of her love for Trip. Would T'Pol really sacrifice her Vulcan heritage to love a human who will die before she reaches middle age? She will be alone for nearly a century after he dies. Is he worth it?

And now, MoulinRouge and THE CURSOR have brought another aspect to this discussion over at the Image Gallery section of the Precious Cargo previews series. In both Unexpected and Oasis, T'Pol reacted to Trip's interest in alien women. She had a very powerful reaction in both cases. Sadly, TO ME!!!!, the T'Pol seen so far this season isn't as interested in Trip. I want her to be jealous, as only a Vulcan can be jealous, but I don't know if it will happen.

I definitely think Trip and T'Pol are a couple in the making. As of now, I think that they'll slowly become true friends and then start to develop a romantic relationship. Although, I agree with a previous comment about the prejudices and how difficult it can be to live a married life where such marriages are frowned upon. I think T'Pol is far too Vulcan to want to leave it, and Trip would definitely go crazy on Vulcan. I think they might decided in the end to break up, but will always love each other and maintain close contact.

But Hey! I could be wrong and they could end up together forever!!

What I like about the relationship between Trip and T'pol is the tension. There is professional tension - She's second in command while he is third. There is other tensions - Vegetarian vs NOT, Emotional vs NOT, Vulcan vs Human. Of course there is definite sexual tension. And although I like to imagine how they will get together (and love reading about it in fanfiction), I think I would not want them to get together anytime soon on the show. It is the tension that is so enjoyable from a viewer point of view. Other shows that have brought characters that have this tension together usually go off the air within the year because of a lack of interest (Moonlighting, Who's the Boss, Scarecrow and Mrs. King - I think I am dating myself!!!)

Anyway, I still consider myself a diehard T/T shipper. I wouldn't mind small glimpses of attraction, or even getting together because of some weird space phenomenon.

And for myst123, who commented on T'pol's lack of interest in Trip this season. Maybe this will change with the next Trip'centric episode ("Cargo')where he finds some alien beauty.

By the way, did you notice that it seems like Trip gets to walk around in his skivvies in the next episode??? (YEAH!!)

myst every one runs the risk that mate may die young and leave you alone.
and say for instance they do have kids.
and really in some ways t'pol has been isolated from vulcan for awhile. remember she had been on earth a number of years before enterprise.
i can see them both going back to san fran where they either have kids or adopt them.

it turns into this complex with this extended family .. kids, grandkids , and the various relatives of the tucker clan (while some of them may not accept them i have a feeling some would.. i keep on thinking of trip's grandmothers saying about tolerance of other cultures) plus freinds and kids of friends who find the place a pleasent place to be while in san fran.

i can see trip putting thought into building her a place that one part would be private say with its own meditation room ect so she could be with her own thoughts when she wanted to be and the rest a place with a large dining room and great hall where there is always laughter and conversation.

spoilers

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,but then the whole issue of t'pol living a whole lot longer then him may be a moot point after what i read about a future episode..

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Trip and T'Pol are in a number of ways an inverted version of Amanda and Sarek. Whereas in the original relationship, the man is Vulcan, in the Enterprise relationship, the woman is from Vulcan, and the man is from Earth.

Moreover, whereas Amanda was the one that learnt to adapt to the austere logic of her Vulcan mate, it's T'Pol, the Vulcan in the new relationship, who's demonstrated her ability to adapt to the conventions of human social interaction practised by Trip. Amanda was naturally inclined towards the Vulcan valorization of logic, because she herself was extraordinarily selfless, refined, and stoic -- in other words, her personality was brilliantly suited to the traditional Vulcan temperament. On 'Enterprise', it's T'Pol who is naturally inclined to the volatile arena of human emotions -- and I suspect it's because she has possesses an unusual emotional and sympathetic quality that's well-suited to the traditional human temperament.

Interestingly, it's Trip who so often brings out this quality in T'Pol. Trip's interactions with other women makes T'Pol jealous; no one else on the ship has incited that emotion in her. Trip makes her confused; she doesn't quite understand why it is that she asks for his counsel in 'Breaking the Ice', yet she knows that for some reason she trusts him.

Trip and T'Pol _are_ inherently compatible with each other, imo. But I think they're compatible because T'Pol is able to cross the cultural line, so to speak, and empathise with Trip on human terms (Trip, love him as I do, isn't always the best at cultural empathy. Instead, he instinctively strays into making judgements against the culture in question, as he does when he demurs against the Vulcan tradition of arranged marriages).

Whether or not Trip and T'Pol get together is a different matter. Personally, I think T'Pol will wind up on Vulcan again, using her experiences aboard the Enterprise in the revolution currently taking place in Vulcan society between the militants in power and the practictioners of the new, human-embracing, pacificist brand of logic that prevails in Vulcan culture in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Ultimately, I just don't know whether Trip will be willing to join her in her crusade...

Interesting comments about this.

I think Trip and T'Pol could make it.....all relationships have their difficulties. Working through all the obstacles is the challenge, IF both want to work at them.

The future timeline has been substantially altered- in Shockwave, so I think that T/T could be the first V/H couple. I see so much chemistry there....and although the writers seem to be opting for Archer and T'Pol, I don't think they'll be able to do much about it- unless they cut out all of their scenes together.

Personally, I'd like to see one of the men to get into a human-alien relationship- it's a Star Trek tradition of sorts, and since Trip is the most human, in terms of emotion etc, it should be him. I think the writers are giving us a big message with him going after alien women so often- maybe they're setting it up for T/T?

they dont have to alter the timeline.
there is nothing in canon that says that amanda and sarek were the first human and vulcan couple.


and lo pan while amanda did adapt to the vulcan ideals and could be stoic she never lost herself.
she could still be a very dynamic passionate woman.

more and more i think maybe that is what it would take to deal with the assault of emotion a bonded mate may have to deal with at times since they would see their mates in ways no one else could

Ummm...I"ve already weighed in on this topic but I just gotta say,

poignant?

Myst, I'm flattered :-)

Well, at least I thought I was done with this topic but the posts on the image gallery have given me some thoughts to share with you.

I think that any thoughts about a poetential relationship may indeed be moot because the evidence for a secret affair is pretty good.

It seems a little farfetched I know but it does seem probable don't you think?

those Missing Scene fics (BTW Like to see more please!) may be more right then we intially thought.

I honestly think that appeal of T/T is that neither can understand the other. What do I mean? Trip has this uncanny ability to coax people out of their shell (i.e. Malcolm) but for some reason it just doesn't work with T'Pol. Conversely, T'Pol can't undertand that how someone who is a Warp Engineer could be so irrational.

Lady Paris mentioned earlier what I think is one of the biggest riddles in Star Trek lore. What logical reason did Sarek have for marrying Amanda? Whatever it is, I feel T'Pol will eventually reach the same conclusion with Trip.

at this stage i am just guessing from what we have seen that they do spend alot of time together.
but more as friends and not yet romantic.

i can see t'pol teaching trip how to meditate and he has been teaching her more about how to get not so much to get along with but to understand humans.

i can see the friendship sailing along pretty smoothly till 7th and that possibly rattled his cage.

he has been t'pol's confident plus he is better at reading her then any one else on the ship/
so just in the little time he sees her he can tell she is in a lot of distress.

look at the clips for minefield,dead stop ect..
that almost always stand next to each other or across from each other. in 7th at the briefing the distance is glaring.

i sorta wonder part way if he smarts off just to get her to look at him, and the look she gives is very interesting.

so off goes his friend with his best bud and neither one will tell him a thing.

and to make matters worse he gets stuck in command.
i can see some where over the last year he becomes not only comfortable with the idea that t'pol is first officer but very happy..

he sees himself far more as chief engineer ect//
he has his little place where he is happy.
and i think he has seen first hand the isolation that being in command can bring.. and right now he is happy with his friends and being the de facto ships counselor.

but all of a sudden he has been put in command when his best friends are off on some very nasty dangerous mission and if they get into trouble he doesnt have clue where they are at.

now once they get back to the ship ok he is still a little curious but he is also happy that she seems ok again.

by the time of the communicator things seem back to nomral except that t'pol seems to be paying special attention to what trip is saying on the bridge. she just ignores hoshi's objection to trip's wanting to hail them.


In "The Search For Spock" Sarek ask the priest/prietesses to return Spock's soul thus giving him life again. They tell Sarek that its an illogical request. I can't remember the line but Sarek basically says when it comes to his son his its not his logic that guides him. In fact, once or twice I'm sure Sarek has said some decisions haven't been based in logic.

When/if T'Pol allows herself to love Trip it'll probably be for the same reasons that Sarek married Amanda, a decision not based in logic. Deep down, Sarek's decision to marry Amanda probably had more to do with affection & fascination for such a 'complex' human along with admiration for intelligence and loyalty. Vulcans aren't incapable of emotions or attraction they just feel emotions cloud sound judgement thus trying to lead a more cerebal/logical.

The only thing I don't ever want to hear, should TnT pair up, is T'Pol say I love you. Vulcans don't say love. They say connections, maybe affection and feeling completed by their lovers/spouse but I love you is just too human of an expression and takes away from the uniques of the Vulcan/Human relationship.

never new trip played harmonica eh kinda cool how t'pol will subject her self to role playing to find trip hehe all in all precious cargo was a fairly decent ep

I know I am more negative about Trip and TíPol after watching Precious Cargo than others.

pookha, you made some good points on the Precious Cargo Image Gallery thread, about the growth in the relationship between Trip and TíPol and that it isnít quite at the same antagonistic point we saw in Season One. They have started to work well together and not to bicker quite as much. The antagonism for and adjustment to each otherís culture could be long term and therefore the story told in Precious Cargo, in the end, not similar at all to what (I hope!) is intended for Trip and TíPol. Even if these two donít get together romantically, the way they interact would allow for interesting investigations into human and Vulcan relations.

Trip does still have the ability to zing TíPol with a one-liner Ė make her look at him. I loved the scene in Marauders where TíPol listens in on a conversation across the compound and reports to Trip and Archer. ďGood earsĒ says Trip and TíPol gives him ďa look.Ē

Bucky and Lady Paris, I always thought of Trip and TíPol as being opposites, but you both make good points about the two being two sides of the same thing. They share a core of similar traits. Oddly, I think Trip probably thinks of himself as extremely rational in comparison with the rest of his family and TíPol thinks of herself as overly emotional in comparison with hers (this is my back story on how these two perceive themselves :D). So, TíPol thinking Trip is overly emotional and Trip thinking TíPol is overly analytic is probably baffling to both. Trip is the TíPol among his relations and TíPol the Trip among hers. (Does that make sense?)

stub, I love jazz and always wanted both Trip and TíPol to be jazz lovers. Thanks for pointing out that as common ground for the two!

Lo Pan and Lady Paris, great comparisons with Sarek and Amanda. If Trip and TíPol were ever to get together long term, Trip could not probably survive on Vulcan because of the suppression of emotions and because of the climate. They would have to move to someplace like Earth. However, the times may not be ripe for a human/Vulcan relationship, and it would be short lived, not marriage. BTW, has Star Trek, other than that one instance, explored the idea of male/female Vulcan/human relationships in any depth?

THECURSOR, I love the Missing Scenes fics as well, and hope we seem more of them, especially the Missing Scene after Trip returns to the ship at the end of Precious Cargo. What is the evidence you have seen to make you think there is a secret affair? Sounds intriguing!

However, much as I love the thought that something is really going on behind the scenes, in the long run Iíd really like to see examination of a human/Vulcan relationship, whether it is romantic or not, rather than what we seem to have so far this season Ė things being resolved off screen and few scenes where they are alone together or communicating non-verbally via looks or proximity.

myst said..

Trip does still have the ability to zing TíPol with a one-liner Ė make her look at him. I loved the scene in Marauders where TíPol listens in on a conversation across the compound and reports to Trip and Archer. ďGood earsĒ says Trip and TíPol gives him ďa look.Ē

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well t'pol can still give some too.
though in shockwave trip is more relieved and amused at her zingers there.

he is just happy that she seems to be recovering from the effects of what the suliban did to her.

the way i see them right now.
they are very good friends. they are starting to fall in love and have a special bond.
but are in big time denial about it still when asked.

trip is the only one who gets invited to her quaters on a regular basis.
for ship stuff and just to spend time on what they call cultural exchange.

I hope we see more Trip/T'Pol conversations later this season. I always enjoyed that and those two together. They are fun to watch and I think they'd make a great couple!

Just saw the next ep. Plot-wise better than last week's.

The optimist in me cheered at a moment between Trip and T'pol near the end. Although I am a bit frustrated by the fact that he seemed to call her 'subcommander' through the entire show. I don't like the way that the PTB have seemed to cool things between them this season. I really miss the arguing, although there is some humor still between them. (such as the 'good ears' comment from Maurauders)

I hope I haven't given too much away for those who haven't seen it yet. Tell me if this annoys anyone out there.

thanks for the hint..
sorta been perturbed that the bbs has been down
hope it is back up by tomorrow night

Here's a curious question.

Trip or T'Pol who'd be the first to?:

1)Show jealousy
2)Low key flirting
3)Make "affection" aware to anyone except the object of their affection.
4)Declare their feelings for the other person to said person.

I guess the majority would say Trip would make the 'first move.' But I also see Trip as the type to hold back on his feelings because maybe he's not sure that T'Pol would feel remotely the same way.

1) T'Pol already has.
2) They both already have...to each other, even!
3) I think Malcolm or Hoshi would be the first to pick up on any "affections" being bandied around. And I could entirely see Malcolm confronting Trip about it in a buddy kind of way.
4)This is a toss-up...I could see either one possibly making the first declaration. Though I see it in a life-or-death situation of some cliched sort.

In all honesty, I can totally see T'Pol making the first move on Trip. I don't think she'd need much coercing...nor any alien psychotropic effects or what have you. This whole Trip/T'Pol thing is just ripe with so many possibilities.

On 18 December 2002 at 10:59 PM Lady_Paris said:
Here's a curious question.

Trip or T'Pol who'd be the first to?:

1)Show jealousy

t'pol probably has twice that we have seen.
i would like to have seen what happened once they were back on the ship after pc.
but they seem to be back on track as friends in the begining of catwalk.
trip is telling archer about what t'pol had to say about the planet ect ..

notice some time when one or the other is talking to archer how often they use..
t'pol told me or the commander said..

2)Low key flirting

civilization, oasis, carbon creek , minefield on and on..


3)Make "affection" aware to anyone except the object of their affection.
well trip made the you would look good in silk comment in front of archer and then trip and t'pol just sorta gazed at each other.

but i could also see malcolm picking up on it..

4)Declare their feelings for the other person to said person.

they really have established how shy trip is about this..
almost every woman had to make the first move..


I guess the majority would say Trip would make the 'first move.' But I also see Trip as the type to hold back on his feelings because maybe he's not sure that T'Pol would feel remotely the same way.

i could see this too..

he really does value her as a friend now and would be afraid of losing that

I know this isn't quite the current topic but I just saw LOTR: The Two Towers and there was a scene in there that reminded of the T/T'P thing.

While Aragon is off questing the ring or whatever, Arawyn's father tries to convince her not to marry Aragon and return to her people like a good little girl.

But the main point of his argument was pretty similar to something that came up on one of the image boards around here. He claimed that they were different species, one's with different lifespans. Aragon would grown old and die while Arawyn would be forced to watch her lover wither away into death and then walk the earth alone for centuries without him. Pretty similar problem between the two couples I think.

Plus, the ears are oddly similar.

I was thinking that too! HA!

Great minds think alike.

hmm
many great minds
i have been thinking of aragon and arawyn ever sense i first saw something in between trip and t'pol.

while trip may not be descended from kings or a ranger he shares a trait with aragon of certain people assuming that he is something lesser then he really is.

It's a classic romantic formula:

Boy and girl meet
Boy and girl fall in love
Boy and girl can't have each other because [insert reason here]
Boy and girl pine away for each other
Boy and girl buck all odds and find a way to be together
True Love conquers in the end

At least that's how *I* see it :)

Stub, I LOVE the way you think!

I especially enjoy the image of Trip *pining* for T'Pol (as she pines for him) because CT does such neat angsting (Vanishing).

Trip and T'Pol meet
Trip and T'Pol mutual affection grows. Insert flirting/friendship and deep bodning moments.
T'Pol pulls aways because
Trip and T'Pol agree to remain close friends (ala Riker and Troi)
Trip and T'Pol venture into other relationships with the alien-of-the-week or with other crew members (Trip and Hoshi or Cutler/ T'Pol and Archer).
Major event cause Trip and/or T'Pol to examine feelings (one goes missing, near death expirence, assumed dead ectra) but keeps feelings hidden.
Trip and/or T'Pol secretly pine away.
During a catalystic event (sweeps month) feelings are revealed and lovers are reunited.

And as Stub said...love conquers in the end

If/when T'Pol and Trip get together timing will be crucial. TPTB either pair a couple too quickly or drag UST out for so long that the viewer no longer cares. Scully & Mulder, (X-Files) are a good example, at least from my viewing perspective. I think its too early in the series for anybody to be paired up but I do enjoy watching T'Pol and Trip strength their friendship. By the 4th/5th season I definantly think love should be declared.

Actully, from a Fan fic prospective the Mulder/SCully thing would be like a gift from heaven. They wouldn't be dating anyone else but too afraid to date each other.

as long as they dont do what farscape did,
get them together and just keep them apart..away from each other long distances apart.

it is one thing getting them together and then apart if they are still sharing the same space.
that way you can see how they are dealing with it ect..

but after some of the stuff on farscape i just didnt care anymore.

I loved John & Aeryn but IA that the physical space between them dragged out too long coupled by the relationship being so on again/off again. Angst and pining only go so long before you just get bored.

I'm not too concerned about Trip and T'Pol in that perspective because Star Trek is very un-Farscape like. Trek plays it safer and everything ties up neatly at the end of the episode where sometimes Farscape teetered on the edge of dangerously too dark.

Which I'm not saying is good or bad. I do say that when you know that your series has a given five to seven year life span you can afford to play it a bit more risker in your story/character telling. IMO

Back to TnT. With Mulder & Scully, they dragged out the whole "will they won't they" for so long I just stopped caring all together. I was secretly becoming a Doggett & Scully fan I hate to see that with TnT. Nothing but pining, longing and long glances at each other for the next seven years. Relationships need movement not to mention for neither character to act would be completely OUT of character. Neither Trip or T'Pol are passive/stagnant characters. Even if Trip quietly stepped aside for a potential Archer & T'Pol pairing eventually he's going to make his feelings for her known either directly or indirectly.

i just have a feeling some thing will happen in that third year.

Okay, well I have a question for the board.

For those of you die hard T/Ts, what you consider the perfect way for them to get together?

i wish it would be easy as they are just sitting togther in her quaters drinking tea and talking and all of sudden they finally see it.
but i suspect it will be much more angst driven where they are about to lose each other and the reality of the situation finally forces them to face their feelings for each other.

i do know this.. i want to see them together as a couple before pon frell or pon farr hits her.
i can see trip both as a human and gentleman having some problems with it as it has been described.

and i could see it affecting him as well as her.. possibly due their being bonded during it and phermone type stuff.

but i want to add this i really have loved some of the stories that really have them getting together after pon frell such as what zane gray;s differential and nikitee's repairs..

there is just some issues i have with some of the old descriptions of pon farr.

maybe the way to go is with pon frell which i think zane came up with..

I'm not convinced there is a "perfect" way to get them together. They're both so stubborn. I think they'd both be (are) very reluctant to admit anything. It'll take an event of cataclysmic proportions to get them to realize that maybe there's something there. I personally think a life/death situation with just the two of them will do the trick.

However it happens, I hope it's not a B&B script. That's all I ask. Let someone else write it. Chris Black, John Shiban, Mike Sussman & Phyllis Strong...anyone but B&B...

I would love to see T'Pol and Trip just drift into a relationship. Starting out a collegues, then becomeing close friends who still flirt and tease each other. Perhaps they have date every Tuesday for lunch or something that's just them. Then let the alien-of-the-week come aboard woo one of them and then watch the other one become jealous before they even realize WHY their jealous. I'd chuckle to see the alien of the week question Trip's annoyance/jealousy. "Is Sub-Commander, T'Pol your mate?" Trip *stammering* out an answer but makes him question his true feelings for T'Pol.

Althou, I agree that something cataclysmic (war, near death, pon farr) will have to happen for TnT to acknowledge feelings for each other. On Voyager, Paris and Torres were hoving near death in space when B'Elanna acknowledged her feelings for him.

I'm not sure about the timeline but shouldn't Earth/Romulan war start soon? Sometimes (unfortunantly) is takes an act of war, seperation and the possiblity that you may never see that person again to make someone confess their true feelings. If the High Command sent T'Pol on a covert mission I could see Trip in his own ackward, roundabout way telling T'Pol how he feeling and why *HE* needs her to return safely. T'Pol remains absolutley silent. When they get to the shuttle bay and are about to depart T'Pol catches everyone, including Trip, off guard and kiss him goodbye in front of EVERYONE including Soval and the Vulcan posse LOL

Trip: "Wow."
T'Pol: Simple, yet effective statement, Commander."

My fantasy is for Trip (who pines for T'Pol from afar because she's spending time with Archer, his best friend) and T'Pol to crash land alone on some distant planet. T'Pol has been struggling with her Pon Far in silence up until this point. Trip tries to be a gentlemen/friend but then it comes down to either mating with his bestfriend's lover or watching the woman he loves dies. They bond thus T'Pol becoming aware of Trip's feelings for her and possible opening up the feelings she's denied for him. The angst, the DRAMA, the betrayle of friendship! lol

So basically you guys are saying that you'd PREFER a gradual cute, romantic "Harry met Sally" kind of love affair but wouldn't be surprised to see the patented Berman/Braga "We're gonna die so let's just get this out of the way." moment of truth?

CURSOR, you just hit on the key phrase 'Berman/Braga' aka Berman and Mini-Me. lol I know that Braga on occassion is capable of emotional and indepth character episodes but when it comes to the long term love affair arcs...these two don't have the best track record. That's why I wouldn't want T'Pol & Trip to become an official couple till the 5th season at least cause what damage could they do the relationship with 2-3 years left in the series?

On Gunsmoke there was Marshall Matt Dillon and Ms. Kitty. Now, it was NEVER said outloud, never declared nor stated publicly but it was clear to everyone in town and the audience that Kitty and Matt were 'together'. Her heart belong to Matt and his to hers, except on occassion when he got amnesia hurt away from Dodge and was watched up by the chippie-of the-week. But it was okay cause she reminded everyone of Ms. Kitty either the way she looked or personality. lol

If we could get that type of relationship between T'Pol & Trip I'd be okay with that. When one is in crisis the other offers guidance, counsel and comfort. When one is ailing/dying in sickbay the other comes to visit and displays unspoken feelings of love by a gentle touch or urging the other one to fight their way back. I want in a moment of crisis for Trip or T'Pol to reach the other emotionally/mentally like no one else ala Scully & Mulder because that how CLOSE they are. Its beyond collegues, deeper then friendship and boardlines on unspoken affection. Meanwhile, the rest of the crew (including Archer) silently questions just how *close* the Commanders really are.

But this is B&B. They'll go for the gimmicks and ratings. And if T'Pol ripping off Trip's clothes in the middle of Pon Far is going to bring in the ratings then believe me that's what we're going to get.

Oh right, like I'M gonna miss the chance to see Trip down to his blue skivvies LOL

I don't want "cute" with Trip and T'Pol. That can happen with Hoshi and Malcolm or Travis. No, our couple need something more intense. I do not believe "cute" would do them justice.

I can see it all drawn out, angsty, denial-ridden, and extremely passionate. It'll have a 'forbidden affair' flavor written all over it. I can even see them breaking it off for a season or two, then reconciling after they realize that they just can't survive without each other. After that life-or-death situation, of course.

I'm hoping they don't use the T'Pol-in-heat storyline. That would just suck, in my opinion. I'd rather not see the two get together at all if they're gonna do that. I expect more from this show than that. I'd like it to be tasteful. I know that may be asking too much, though.

I agree with Lady Paris on the unspoken stuff between Trip and T'Pol. They're already well on their way to making this a great friendship/something-more. They've already got the unspoken communication down pat (those looks and lingering glances!) and I'd love to see them take it to a more physical level. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Trip seems to be the only one able to pick up on T'Pol's moods. And who has a calming effect (affect? Gah) on him? That's right, T'Pol.

Like I've said before, there are SO many paths to take them on and I hope they make it a good one. If they make it at all.

Good point, stub, and good question, THECURSOR. I don't know if there is a perfect way for these two characters to get together, but I don't want it to be cute, either. I'd like the two to begin to understand and appreciate each other. As poohka has pointed out, the two often refer to conversations they had with each other about ship business. They do talk. They have also learned to work better with each other between last season and this (now THAT I would have liked to see on screen, not off). I'd love the relationship to be both angsty and funny.

The two are interested in each other, but do the two scare each other a little bit? Is Trip too human for T'Pol and T'Pol too Vulcan for Trip? Do they subconsciously (yes, T'Pol, subconsciously!), see a future together but it isn't a future either of them want because it isn't part of the plans they have made for themselves?

So you guys think they have a future? Now a lot of shipper's I've talked to say that this would be just one of those hot and bothered affairs that ends because it would never work out. Do you disagree? Is this a kids and picket fence situation? Keep in mind that T'Pol's going to look like she's in her 20s when Trip starts getting liver spots. Keep in mind if they had kids then Trip's humanity and T'Pol's logic would make it hard to maintain a clear identity Not impossible but very hard.

So are you guys really sure they'll have a future together?

Absolutely no future for them. I can't imagine them settling down together. However, I can see future relationships screwed up because deep down they really are still in love with each other. Especially for Trip. The denial will ring on for years for them both, whether their relationship is consumated or their love is unrequited or what have you. I think they'd (try and) remain friends throughout Trip's life (because T'Pol will undoubtedly outlive him, assuming she doesn't die in the line of duty), but not lovers. They'll both come to realize that's just not in the cards.

But while they are lovers, however short of time it is, it'll be damn HOT!! :D

In our reality world, couples of differing faiths and racial backgrounds marry. Its hard. D@amn hard but with hard work, determination, and faith/love they manage to make it work. They also, weighing the pros and cons make the decision whether or not, to bring a child into a not-always-tolerant-world. Some people opt not too some people do and not with just one child but a great big large families that are noise, troublesome and joyful. They make the choice not to let the bigotry or misunderstanding of others decide their fate or who they love.

And before there was Trip and T'Pol their was Sarek & Amanda, parents of Spock. Having a human wife and half-human/Vulcan son didn't seem to hurt Sarek's political career, Amanda seemed to thrieve in their relationship, and it was clear that Sarek loved his wife. Yes, being part-Human was a conflict with Spock but Spock made the choice to enter into Starfleet. He found a home among the diversity of the Federation.

I don't envision Trip & T'Pol becoming the Ozzie & Harriet of the new Federation (lol) but yes, if they really love each other I could see them being in it for the long haul. Trip may never *get* Vulcans the way Amanda did but I don't think he'd disrespect who T'Pol is. I imagine other Vulcans (like Soval) challenging Trip much like Jadzia was by the Klingon woman when she wanted to marry Worf. I picture T'Pol being called on her logic bonding/mating with a human. And how would Trip's family--not just Grandma-- react to T'Pol. Wouldn't they be concerned at the type of wife she could be for him. It wouldn't be easy and definantly angsty and conflicted.

As for their child (s). A Human and Vulcan may not be compatiable to have a child (True, there's Spock but this is set pre-TOS. Medical technology may not be advance enough). Now, there's a good source of conflict. If Trip wanted children would T'Pol feel like she was *robbering* him of his chance or even vice versa? If they do have children, I can't imagine T'Pol or Trip settling on either Vulcan or Earth because their scientist/explores. The kid would probably grow up on a space ship, seeing new cultures and species. Very T'Pol like yet more open to *humanity*. He doesn't play baseball or collect comic books but he enjoys the quiet times fishing with his father or solving logic puzzles together. As an adult he would visit the planets of both his parents finding both flaws and good in both idealogies.

Of course, its all in the hands of TPTB. By the end of the series the writers could scribe for Trip or T'Pol to die a horrible death saving Enterprise or T'Pol ends up with Archer *shudder* lol

*apologizes for the typos and rambling*

Lady Paris, I love your post!

Actually, stub and THECURSOR, I don't have a hard time envisioning Trip and T'Pol together for the long haul, liver spots and all :D. Their conflict will be over their self-perceptions and their ability to adjust what they thought their lives would be to what they will become. I think this scenario would be most intriguing to explore - how to get beyond what you thought life would be to what it will really become? - and realize that life is much richer than you originally imagined.

If MoulinRouge is reading these messages (are you?), I think Trip would have the life he envisioned with Hoshi, and an unexpected life which he couldn't predict with T'Pol. One is safe and the other, the one with T'Pol is, in the words of our BBS mom snoopmary, the DARK SIDE ;).

i agree with lady paris..
we know this type of relationship can work because of sarek and amanda.
and no their reationship wasnt all sweetness and light. they split up for about a year over sarek's conflict with spock.
but at the time of amok time you could tell they still had a very strong relationship.

and really the fact that vulcan society was so accepting of this union that it did not hurt his political career convinces me that others had to come before them . to pave the way and prove that the relationship could work.

actually the way it seems to be developing will probably aid it in being a longer lasting relationship.

and i dont know about the age difference.

look at how productive and youthful looking older people are today.
this is 150 years in the future.
you may have 100 year old live spans..

so t'pol is about 65 and trip is 33.

i can see working out for a long time even if they may have a seperation for ahwile here and there.

and with the person that he is becoming i can see trip putting in the effort it will take to make this suceed.

Pookha said:
~~and really the fact that vulcan society was so accepting of this union that it did not hurt his political career convinces me that others had to come before them . to pave the way and prove that the relationship could work.~~

Pookha, IA and it makes me wonder this...

The Vulcans of Enterprise are very different from the Vulcans we're farmilar with. While there may be exceptions to the rule Enterprise Vulcans seem to have little respect/regard for humans and treat them more like stupid hapless pets then equals. The Vulcans we know from TNG and beyond may still consider human/oids illogical and slaves to our emotions but they're much more respectful and treat them as equals.

Hopefully, Enterprise will examine how Vulcans-Humans got to point A and B where Vulcans & Human finally started to work together and a potential bonding/marriage between a Vulcan & Human wasn't the end of the world.

Going back to my early point. Interfaith/interracial, same sex relationships aren't new nor as accepted as easily then as they are now. But somebody had to be the first gay couple, somebody has to be the first to marry outside the faith and someones despite their sad entwined history has to be the first interracial couple. And no it wasn't easy, and yes alot of couples didn't make it for whatever reason but somebody had to be the first to try.

I'd like to think since Enterprise is suppose to be pre-everything, a romantic relationship Trip & T'Pol helps pave the way not to mention Enterprise its self as the begins of the Federation. Whether or not things work out between Trip & T'Pol is unsure but perhaps as a potential episode a young Sarek witness a moment of friendship or intimacy between Trip and T'Pol. Its a moment between two unlikely species that changes something for young Sarek for his future.

I also agree that if/when the writers allow Trip to have romantic feelings for T'Pol his in it for the long haul. Do or die, Trip will do anything, everything and all that inbetween to make the relationship work, to make T'Pol realize that their relationship can work if they fight for it. Their may be the occassional seperations and pushing each other away neither is hardly a saint and sometimes you gotta say enough of this crap but I like to believe they'd fine their way back too each other. As myst said Trip could have an easy, cute-pie relationship with a Hoshi type minus the angst and conflict but its like that song goes.."through the fire, to the limit to the wall. For a chance to be with you I'd gladly risk it all." (or something like that lol)

I'd be *VERY* curious to see how much Trip and T'Pol are will to sacarfice and risk for this relationship. Their commands, their family, friends ectra

Personally, I have no opinion on this subject, I think either a ships passing relationship and a long haul one have the same amount of merits and flaws. But maybe a combination of the two would work best.

Perhaps it starts as a brief affair, both of them parting amicably when the mission ends. Then maybe they meet again ten or so years later across a crowded room at boring party. They meet, talk about old times, and eventually set a little lunch date since they're both single for what ever reason. They might have children from previous marriges that have heard all about how there was this one person on the whole ship that made mom or dad feel consistently special for five years and aren't surprised to see the two of them nervously hooking up again after all that time. Eventually things get more and more serious over time.

But following what was previously said about acceptence, I have a follow up question.

We already know that they'd have a difficult time living on Earth or Vulcan but what about the ship itself? Which crew member would be the most upset by the idea of T/T?

i just wouldnt automatically assume they would have problems on earth.

the whole key is being surrouned by a core group of supportive people wherever you are when you are in a mixed marraige.
be they family, friends or the people you work with.

of the sucessful mixed marriages (race or religion) that worked they have that as one of the key factors.

i could easily see san fran as a place they could call home or after they leave enterprise a science research vessel that has whole families along.

but i also could see them seperate after enterprise's mission is done as you suggest but get together again after many years seperation because the more they are apart the more they see that well they were made for each.

this is happening right now to two of my friends.

---------

lady paris..

i dont think all vulcans across the board have the same level of contempt toward humans.

and we know that vulcans have been working with humans on various programs.

heck one of the funny things about 7th was that trip was having to lie to a vulcan who came across as a rather decent chap.

and then you have trip's vulcan science teacher who seems to have a serious impact on trip.

but yeah they are goint to have problems from many vulcans and especially certain one 's in authority but hey some one has to be first.

i do love your idea of a young sarek meeting trip and t'pol after they are together.

I think T'Pol would resist much more than Trip would. On one hand, I can see Trip fervently trying to convince T'Pol that this can work, doing whatever he can to make her stay with him.

But on the other hand, I can see him giving up after a while. Her stubbornness wins out. But with this resolution, Trip would also become very miserable and cranky.

I just don't see an easy time with Trip and T'Pol, whether they're having a hot affair or try and make it for the long haul. I can see several break-ups and reconciliations and lots of interference. It'll definately test their mettle.

what is interesting is how much effect they appear to be having on each other.

trip is a far more calm person then last year.
he still has his moments but overall he is far more mature.

t'pol more and more is showing compassion and attempting to understand the humans around her.

it is almost like they are being tempered and strengthened to endure what is ahead.

================

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

Temper \Tem"per\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Tempered; p. pr. & vb.

n. Tempering.] [AS. temprian or OF. temper, F. temp['e]rer,

and (in sense 3) temper, L. temperare, akin to tempus time.

Cf. Temporal, Distemper, Tamper.]

1. To mingle in due proportion; to prepare by combining; to

modify, as by adding some new element; to qualify, as by

an ingredient; hence, to soften; to mollify; to assuage;

to soothe; to calm.


=============
But thy fire Shall be more tempered, and thy hope

far higher. --Byron.

Pookha--you're probably correct regarding Vulcan & Human relationships. Like you said, Trip had a Vulcan science teacher, the Vulcan ambassador from 'Fallen Hero', the non-Vulcans we met in Fusion and the Captain from The Seventh. They (and probably a few others) seem to be the 'exception' to the rule re: Vulcans. I just get the impression that there are more Sovals with the 'Sheesh, these humans are SO annoying' attitude sometimes. Those are the Vulcans I see giving Trip & T'Pol are hard time and the ones Trip would have to prove himself too.

Stub, IA about T'Pol putting up MAJOR road block despite her feelings for Trip. Trip though strikes me as the type of character who does NOT give up easily once he puts his mind to something. And if he sets his mind to a relationship with T'Pol hee's going in (and possible down) swinging. But as you said I can also see him getting angry and fustrated as they take two steps forward and twenty steps back mainly because T'Pol pulls and then pushes him away. Eventually he'll say enough. He'll rant, rave or quietly and emotionally bare his soul before he walks away. And T'Pol being both Vulcan, stubborn and disturb by her feelings will probably let him go.

And I wouldn't even mind it playing out that way. Angst in moderation isn't a bad thing, ya know. But the romantic in me hopes that while T'Pol & Trip agree they can't be lovers, and work on a tentative friendship again something profound would take place that would be T'Pol's revelation that she wants to be with Trip because she loves him. But is she too late? Would Trip trust her again? Or do we watch T'Pol keep her feelings to herself, her love for Trip going unspoken. Trip, sure still loves/cares for her but he can accept a friendship because T'Pol is important to him.

In other words the ball would be in T'Pol court. Let's see if she runs with it or not. >G<

Lady Paris~~Who would hope T'Pol would run and spike the ball before that tramp Ensign Cutler gets her hooks into Trip! LOL *kidding*

----------We already know that they'd have a difficult time living on Earth or Vulcan but what about the ship itself? Which crew member would be the most upset by the idea of T/T?-----------

Hoshi & Mayweather would probably be oblivious to TnT. They both strike me as the type who believe in "If two people love each other what the heck.." Unless Hoshi or Mayweather had crushes on either one

Phlox? I'm not sure. Maybe from a scientific/psychological factor (doesn't he have a degree in pyschology?) he might be curious about the mating habits of a Vulcan & Human and how its effecting their mental well being lol

I think the two that would be the most upset would be Archer and Reed. Perhaps he's over it but Reed made it clear in ShuttlePod One he had a major crush on the Subcommander. Reed sees himself compatiable with T'Pol because (in his opinion) they're both very reserved and private people. T'Pol was the ideal woman for him on an entire ship. Not to personal, not constantly asking about his feelings, not big on the intimacy. Again this is his perspective. Reed just wouldn't get it. Trip is loud, abrasive, unrefined and T'Pol's polar opposite. How could she prefer to be with somebody like that rather then somebody like him??!!

Archer I think would definantly be upset. Archer (A Night In Sickbay) is attracted to T'Pol. Yet Archer knows that nothing can really happen between him and T'Pol; he's okay with that. But he's also probably thinking that nobody else on the ship has a chance either. It would be a genuien shock to Archer to see T'Pol & Trip together romantically and I think he'd want to be happy but you know there's going to be a twing of jealousy and resentment. It's perfectly natural even with the best of friends to be jealous when they have something you wanted or don't have in your life. Of course you get over it and move on and I think Archer would too.

hmm
i have a real different perspective about this.
there are many reasons why someone may object to the choice of a friend beyond interest.

if anything hoshi may have a hard time with it.
not out of interest in trip but because she seems to view him as a big brother.
and she still seems to have issues with t'pol.
ie she still seemed to be really intimidated by her in the dream sequqnce of vanishing point.

she may not see t'pol as being worthy of trip.

travis i dont know.. sometimes i really do wonder if the people on the ship see all the little glances and well sometime obvious looks that go on between the two.

sometimes i wonder what is the perception of some of the crew about the couple.

you get the feeling with travis that he watches and observes a lot when he can.
i still wonder if he had someone in mind when he was teasing trip about movie night.

phlox.. ah phlox may be the wild card.
they both seemed to spend a lot of time talking to him.
and he was one of the people who encouraged t'pol to try human foods . and when she said what she did about humans being attracted to other species due to curiousity more then anything else he spoke up and said that she might be rushing to judgement.

and he seemed to know something when he advised archer not to bring up the whole sexual tension thing.
he seemed to say something about you will not like the answer so he may even suspect that trip and t'pol may have feelings for each other.

archer.. well i dont think the archer in anis is the real true archer.

the archer in anis was a man who was very seriously sleep deprived due to dealing with the aliens for almost a week, and very possibly feeling a little post stress syndrome after going through almost two months of constant stress.

on top of it he is feeling some very serious isolation . everyone remembers the decon part of the dream but the more important part may be the begining when he standing out in the rain. the only one without an umbrella/

so he has this dream about t'pol and is rattled about it and then he starts acting like a fool the next time he sees her.

it may be more guilt about the dream then any real attraction or even sexual tension.

as for why phlox said what the did.. may be two things.
one for someone who doesnt have to really sleep very often he may not really understand totally how sleep deprivation can affect some people.
having clinical knowledge is one thing but actually either experiencing it or seeing and understanding it is another.

oh yeah , i also like my theory that he is freudian.. from the description of the dream and watching archer 's well freudian slips .. well


but how about archer normally..
something to keep in mind is that he may have seen more of the trip and t'pol flirt fest more then any one else.

i really would love to see more dinner scenes with the three to see if they are still doing it.

three of the big ones are in fallen hero, oasis and carbon creek.

you even have trip telling t'pol she would look real good in silk as t'pol jusr gazes back at him and archer looks on a little amused and wondering.

oh i just thought of something and hop back to anis.
i wonder if the sudden attraction to t'pol may have come from archer's subconscious being upset with trip and trying to find a way to lash back.
and remember i said subconscious.. if archer even suspected he felt something like that he would be appalled with himself.

now the big question would be who he would feel if he knew for sure the two were involved.
for one thing he would be concerned as friends of them both .. especially as trip 's friend.

trip hasnt had a golden track record with romance and he seems to get hurt when they dont work out.
(archer once he heard about natalie diddnt buy for second the reason trip gave for missing diner. he kept on asking trip if he was ok. he obviously saw this before)

so he might really be worried how this will affect trip if it doesnt work out.

and he also sees t'pol as a friend now. what are the implications for her if for instance the vulcans learn of it. will she be harmed due to it.

and it comes down to his being captain.
while the rank thing isnt an issue he has to wonder if this will affect the ship. especially if it doesnt work out.
he has to wonder what will happen if it becomes public knowledge ect.

his life could be real interesting real fast if things dont work out.

but still well i have theory about something but i want to see some more of this years episodes but something different may be percolating in his subconscious now... hmm

for malcolm ..
i think the little crush is sorta over.
if anything i see t'pol and mal becoming friends as they go to each other trying to figure trip out.


you see the beginnig hint of that in singularity when she goes right to mal when she is concerned about trip's behaviour.

and i think mal has a higher opinion of trip then you give him credit for.
he may have thougt that way about him before shuttlepod one but not after.
there he saw a differt side of trip (that line about understanding him) and is one reason he bard his soul to trip.

if anything once malcolm believed that trip really cared about her then i could see mal being happy about it.

i sorta wonder if mal suspected all the way back in shuttlepod one if trip had feeling for t'pol and is one reason he sorta badgered him about it.

just something to think about it.

if anything i see the biggest problem off the ship.. if a certain vulcan ambassador to earth ever gets wind of it there will be hell to pay since neither one of them are on his list of favorite people.

If Mal's inital reaction to Trip & T'Pol was "are you FRELLING serious?" I don't think its because he has a low opinion of Trip but more out of whatever lingering feelings he has for T'Pol. It would be a knee jerk reaction and like I said its perfectly normally to be slightly jealous of a friend sometimes cause it has less to do about them deserving it and more "how come that never happens to me." Its the like the maid of honor who's thrilled for her bestfriend, the bride, but wishes for a few moments it was her wedding.(It's when you hold on to it, let it fester or destory your friendship--that the problem.) Once it sunk in I'm sure Malcolm in the Middle would genuienly wish them both well and be happy for his buddy.

And, its been mentioned, Malcolm would probably be the first to figure everything out and confront Trip or T'Pol about feelings for the other. I see Trip sharing his feelings re; T'Pol with either Mal or Hoshi before anybody else including his bestfriend Jon Archer.

The same things goes for Archer, imo. He loves Trip like a brother, respects and cares for T'Pol but a normal human being I think it would be okay if a small part of him was like "Sonofb*tch". In the fanfiction Repairs I thought Archer's reaction to T'Pol & Trip was plausible. He a secret attraction to T'Pol, TnT pair up and Archer is shocked and slightly angry cause T'Pol choose a man who was so unlikely for her to choose. Of course he got over it, apologized for his gooberness and everything was okay. Once the shock wore off I think Archer would be very supportive, concearned but happy for his friends.

You make a good point about Hoshi & Travis. I guess because we don't see that much of Travis he didn't strike me as the observant type. I think Travis would be the least concearned about Trip & T'Pol.

Ambassador Soval, now he I could see having a major heart attack over T & T. I wonder how far Soval would go--get T'Pol recalled back to Vulcan perhaps? Have Enterprise called back to Earth. Again, I wonder about T'Pol parents or Trip's family. Is that Grandmother of his as tolerant as Trip said she was? And what about other Vulcans? If T'Pol is dealing with her own conflicts and concearns how does she introduce Trip if at all. How does Trip react to that?

I don't think T'Pol would go back to Vulcan. I have this feeling that she doesn't want to return there. She's using the VHC and now moreso Enterprise as an escape. I want to know why. What's she running from?

k, so that was off topic.

Onward...I have mixed feelings about how Archer would respond to this. On one hand, I can see him getting all pissy and jealous. But I can also see him being very supportive. I just don't know. It's way too early to tell.

I can see Malcolm being fine with it. In fact, I can see Trip telling him about it and swearing him to secrecy. I think Mal would feel very important with that secret, one that even the Captain didn't know about. I think he'd take it very seriously and enjoy every second of it.

I don't think Hoshi would have a problem with it, either. She'd probably nag at T'Pol to tell her details and get the whole "girl talk" experience out of the unsuspecting Vulcan.

Perhaps T'Pol enjoys the "freedom" she expirences from being around humans compared too living with all Vulcans. We know she likes jazz and had an emotional reaction when she heard it in that jazz club. (Fusion) and T'Pol has expressed emotions in her own Vulcan way. On Vulcan or working on a Vulcan ship she wouldn't be able to have those expirence. Plus, T'Pol is obviously outspoken ala the Vulcan Ambassador we met in (Fallen Hero)--she doesn't too the line. I'd be curious to see who she learned that from. Parents. Mentor. Another outspoken Vulcan?

I also don't think T'Pol would go back to Vulcan if she didn't have too but what if Soval forced the issue? Accussed T'Pol of misconduct or perhaps a crime? Have her declared unfit for command with the Vulcan High Council? Blackmail? Which I know is very un-Vulcan but not all Vulcans are like Spock or Tuvok. Spock's fiancee (Amonk Time) was quite scheming and Sybock (Spock's brother) was also devious and dangerous.

If Soval or the High Command forced the issue would T'Pol give up Vulcan for Trip? Or vice versa would Trip be willing to give up his comission for T'Pol?

-----I can see Malcolm being fine with it. In fact, I can see Trip telling him about it and swearing him to secrecy. I think Mal would feel very important with that secret, one that even the Captain didn't know about. I think he'd take it very seriously and enjoy every second of it.---

OMG Malcolm is Joey to Trip and T'Pol Monica and Chandler LOL I don't know if I see Malcolm enjoy it. He would definantly keep the secret but Mal strikes me as the type who would find it more silly (them not telling) and slightly annoying that he's in "The Middle."

you know malcolm may already have a clue after he caught trip asking about the sex lives of vulcans in fusion and didnt he do it again in two days.

and i do see him amused by it because he and trip are such good friends.

but i do expect he will insist that they tell jon.
which i think they should.

but besides him and probably phlox i think for the first year at least they need to keep it on the qt.

that way if certain people have objections they could point out this is something more then a fling.

i have a new question

i sorta got this idea over at trek pulse but it was about enterprise in general

this is about trip and t'pol
if you were trying to explain trip and t'pol which episodes would you suggest


my picks


strange new world
(see the end again some time, for instance who is the only
person who gets water offered to them)

unexpected
trip get's pregant and t'pol acts pissy about it

breaking the ice
she breaks her engangement and he shares her secret
plus even before then he is the only one to read her mood


civilization
trip notices that t'pol looks great with long hair and
the first of their short hand communicating with each other

Shuttlepod One
trip at first denies noticing her but you get
the feeling he is protesting to much.
but after this seems to be the start of some of the smoldering glances

Fusion
yeah maybe shuttlepod one did start something.. the beginning of
trip's obsession with trying to find out about the sex life of vulcans
and malcolm catches him at it (lol)

Oasis
what happens when you arent sure how the girl you like feels about you
from you look pretty in silk to do you ever get scared to well hey there
is this other girl and the return of jealous t'pol.

shockwave part 2 and mindfield
some real interesting and sublte stuff in both

carbon creek
sigh the last time we see them at dinner
watch the flirt fest

singularity..
you said that it was urgent, i said it was important

catwalk
among other things movie night

In no particular order...

Broken Bow: Hey, I'm as straight as the next hetrosexual femal but that 'growling' "Turn around." T'Pol did. WHOA BABY! When she's geling Trip up....I never wanted to be a glob of lifeless gel so badly in all my life! LOL

Strange New Worlds: Yup, I did notice who got water at the end of the episode plus it ws a great episode examing the tension/mistrust between Trip and T'Pol. They both admit they have misconception they need to get over. Man, they've come a long way since this episode.

Which you see in Breaking The Ice: Trip genuienly feels guilty enough to tell on himself regarding reading T'Pol letter. S he's pissed yet she confides in him about her engagement and I love that "I know something you guys don't" look on Trip's face at the end when T'Pol goes to send the letter.

Acquistion: They work so well together plus T'Pol is checking Trip in his underoos. Plus, the gentlemen protest to loudly when that Fergeni asked if T'Pol was his wife >eg

Minefield & The Communicator: Both episodes show them working well together, offering and listening to the others advice, glances, gestures and secret signaling.


Strange New World: This is the episode that triggered the 'ship for me. I love how they stand toe to toe, nose to nose, all tense. And Trip's "I'm gonna split you in two" line. Helloo? What was that he was saying in Breaking the Ice about letting your subconscious rule your decisions?

Breaking the Ice: Excellent title...our first good read on their interactions. Especially how adept Trip is at reading T'Pol's moods. And how willing she seems to be to allow him to see them. Still the best T/T episode to date.

Fusion: Trip inqires about Vulcan sex. 'Nuff said.

Oasis: Trip tosses out a compliment in front of Archer and a guest. Interesting. Wonder what he woulda said in private? And let's not forget T'Pol getting pissy about the waif Trip takes a liking to. Can't blame her there.

Shockwaves and Minefield: Trip and Polly are shown working extremely well together. Like they'd been doing it their whole lives.

Carbon Creek: Agree with pookha here...flirt fest galore.

Dead Stop: We find out T'Pol has an oral fixation as she just can't tear her eyes away from Trip as he eats that damn catfish. And the whole "evenin' Subcommander" is absolutely priceless.

Marauders: They both dressed up like Olivia Newton John. That must mean *something.* Though I'm not sure I want to know exactly what.

Singularity: Chock full of T/T stuff. What an unexpected surprise. T'Pol is alerted to Trip's behavior because he doesn't want to stick around and play in her room. Hmmm...and he did drop everything to cater to her whim, whereas nothing else could tear him away from that Chair.

The Catwalk: Movie Night! YAY! 'Nuff said here as well.

did anyone else get an impression in strange new world that she had been kneeling in front of him for awhile waiting for him to wake up.

something that has been fluttering in the back of my mind about catwalk.

the whole scene where they discover that the injectors are coming back on line take on added dramatic significance if you consider at that time they didnt know if it would be safe to go back in even with the eva suits.

t'pol's trying to convince trip that it is just a glitch takes on a deeper meaning and so does his reaction.

she knew who would have to go and check on the systems and possibly was trying to protect him .

he gets upset because he sees it for the useless arguement that it is.. he has no choice but to go.

Okay well if we're still going by episodes...

Broken Bow
Strange New Worlds
Unexpected
Breaking the Ice
Oasis
Precious Cargo
Catwalk

I do have a question about the next episode.
Not to give away too many spoilers but it does involve Trip alone and in danger with the rest of the crew looking on with worry, how do you guys think this kind of thing affects T and T?

well from stuff we have seen so far she doesnt like to see him in danger.

for instance that little thing from catwalk that i found interestng.
back in precious cargo she sensed pretty early he was in danger and she was even willing to go through her little play acting to help get him back.

now the real question is how much is she willing to show of this to him or others.

and how much of it is she aware of.
or willing to admit.

the subconscious to a certain extant seems to be driving these two. which harkens back to breaking the ice.

the problem is we havent seen enough of happens between them after a crisis is over.
they get him back and that is pretty much the end of the episode or the last time we see them together.

i do tink her reaction at the end of precious cargo was pretty interesting when she just went totally vulcan as if she was afraid to show any emotion at all.

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Well going by your theory we can imagine exactly what she was feeling at the end of Precious Cargo and why she went all vulcan.

Trip's in grave danger, his life could end at any second and T'Pol knows this. She decides that any action is justifiable in pursuit of saving her beloved's existance.

SO she bends the rules a little. Goes along with the stupid playacting because it's going to save Trip.

Then she gets to the planet and imagine her suprise at what she finds.

Her Trip is alive and okay...

...in the arms of another woman.

It seemed to me that she wasn't just going vulcan, she was seething.

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